po·lyg·a·my - marriage in which a spouse of either sex may have more than one mate at the same time — compare POLYANDRY, POLYGYNY
For some reason this evening, CNN is having a special on Polygamy; one report after another. Most of it is focused on the stuff a guy named Warren Jeffs is pushing out in Colorado City, Arizona. Seems some of the folks in the country are getting a little irked with Mr. Jeffs and lots of folks including the FBI are going after him. Should they go after him? Yeah probably. Should it be because of Polygamy. No.
I think the whole aspect of polygamy is being brought up to incite the conservatives to action about it. You want to go after Jeffs? Be honest, it is about tax evasion, it is about “legally” ripping off the social programs the country has (food stamps, infant milk coupons, etc), it is about declaring himself as God on earth. Yep, that’s right, Warren has a bit of a god complex and all of his followers are allegedly of the opinion that he is THE ONE. Nothing will piss off a high level conservative belly button inspecting Christian church official than a guy who gets to have sex with lots of women and calls himself God, ah screw it, even the woman don’t count, you don’t call yourself God. He couldn’t have pissed off the right wing movers and shakers more if he was also forcing his wives to have sex with each other or collecting more husbands for his own self. Saying you are God trumps any homosexual activities by a long shot. It is tough to say you are the only one in possession of the word of God when someone else is saying that he actually IS God.
I don’t mind that he is a polygamist. Besides the fact that it isn’t my business what his home life is like, the choice of that lifestyle is a matter for the folks in the relationship; government and religious right folks, back off. Outlawing polygamy is about as bright as outlawing anal sex and swearing which are also laws we have on the books here in the U.S. of A for any folks outside of the country that were wondering.
I do mind that he is evading taxes, mostly because I can’t seem to get away with it myself. I get legally raped by the government every April 15 and my ass is sore until about the next April when it gets rubbed raw again. It is sort of like… Happy Birthday joe, now bend over. I keep asking for some nice AstroGlide or even something as simple as vasoline for my BD to deal with the mid-April Federal romp but nope, never get that. Living in this country you shouldn’t be talking about that kind of stuff… shush!!!
I do mind that he (Jeffs)Â is taking children to bed. Seems that some of his wives have been a trifle young like 13,14,15 young. That really isn’t right, kids at that age really can’t make a good sound judgement on who should be pulling their skirts up and someone who takes advantage of that really needs to have a good talking to. The fact that they stay married kind of sort of makes it a little better but still, kids can’t make decisions of that magnitude when it involves adults. They should be playing with other kids their age and adults should be just making sure they are safe and happy.
I do mind that he seems to be brainwashing people and punishing folks who try to leave. That isn’t cool, I will stand behind someone who wants to be a polygamist but gosh darn it, it needs to be personal choice of all involved. You can’t threaten to kill someone or threaten to take someone’s children and tell them to make a choice. Choice doesn’t work like that. It is sort of like our choice to pay taxes in the US… Pay them or go to jail are your usual choices. Or I guess start a church. Those are three horrendous choices. Principal of least pain is to go with paying them.
So one of these news reports is about a family who left the US and went to Canada. Something like one guy with 20 wives and 100 kids. They all seemed extremely happy. The kids seemed happy, the wives were happy, the husband seemed happy, it didn’t appear there was any brainwashing and threatening going on but I haven’t been there, I don’t know. Anyway the Canadian Royal Mounted Police are going after them and going to probably eject the women from the country and possibly put the husband in jail. The wives don’t want to go, their kids seem to want to stay in Canada and what mom is going to want to leave her kids? The mother’s were all pretty much of the opinion that they weren’t leaving and if someone tries to make them, they will be dragging them kicking and screaming. Come on Canada, you guys are supposed to be a little more enlightened than some of the dumb Americans. What’s up? They want to put “dad” in jail because a couple of his wives might have been <16 when they “joined” the family. So ok, that was wrong. But I think it is much worse to tear that family apart at this point. I don’t believe any good could come of throwing the kids into foster families.
I guess if you want to do something to protect the kids and families, make polygamy legal and put boundaries and rules around it like regular marriage. Just saying it is illegal isn’t going to stop it. However, if you throw in the normal licensing fees and allow for the blood checks and things like that bringing it out into the open may throw more light on it and help get away from the brainwashing aspects of it and the 50 year old marrying 15 years old I would expect; maybe not, I don’t know for sure obviously. I do think saying it is illegal outright is pretty silly though. Just like saying same sex marriage is illegal.
So if you are trying to read between the lines you are thinking, whoa, joe wants to be a polygamist. Nope. I don’t think I do anyway. I think I probably have enough trouble keeping one woman happy. Trying to keep more than one woman happy would probably be more than I could handle because it is something I would like to take very seriously. I don’t visualize a polygamy as a fun fest where I am laying there eating grapes and the women run around doing everything. If anything I visualize where they are laying around throwing things at me telling me to clean the place up and go get the new TV Guide and boxes of chocolates. 
Now if a polygamy worked like the stuff that Heinlein described in many of his novels and social commentary then that is probably something I could consider. That was more of a family of equals where everyone does what they could and there is no such thing as jealousy and no fears of making it on your own if you wanted to leave, etc. You simply have to wait until any children you were directly involved in bringing into the world were raised to the age where they could/would leave the nest (say 18) and off you go to find something else. If you and the partner(s) who were directly involved with the child(ren) wanted to leave and go form their own family, that would be fine too. The whole thing about the family should be about safely and properly raising the children in a loving atmosphere but it should also not punish the adults either. When it comes down to it though, I am probably pretty conservative here and see myself in marriage with one woman at a time who thinks as highly of me as I do of her; I am a big fan of serious one on one cuddling. Not saying someone I care about couldn’t change my mind, but even so, that would be between us and our business, not anyone else’s. 
So the exec summary….
1. Polygamy isn’t bad, it could be love, it could be fun, either way unless you are involved or someone feels like sharing that info with you it is none of your business; Go Team!. Homosexual relationships aren’t bad, it could be love, it could be fun, either way unless you are involved or someone feels like sharing that info with you it is none of your business. Anal sex isn’t bad, it could be love, it could be fun, either way unless you are involved or someone feels like sharing that info with you it is none of your business. Swearing isn’t bad, words can’t make you bleed, stupid people reacting poorly to words can make you bleed so those who swear should be aware of that. A little kid who hears a “bad” word will have no context for it unless you as their parent or guide blow it out of proportion. I have one friend who brought her young son over and I said something as a joke (who me???). My friend started freaking out about it telling her kid not to ever say that word… guess what word became that kid’s favorite word? Why? Because he was told not to and knew it would generate attention for him and mom trained him perfectly by responding hysterically every single time. Had she completely ignored it he never would have used the word again.
If you don’t like any of these, don’t do them, that is what choice is about. However, and this is important, don’t try to prevent others, it SHOULD be a choice. Choice to do it, choice not to do it. Trying to outlaw any of them is moronic - morality laws do not work. The fact that the US has laws on the books for all of these items says more about the lawmakers than anything else.
2. Warren Jeffs probably needs to have a nice long talk with someone about his actions. Mostly, in my mind, for brainwashing people and having sex with kids.
3. It will be sad if the family in Canada gets destroyed simply because they have a lifestyle others don’t agree with and I feel sorry for the kids.
Â
BTW, if you saw the beginning of the CNN reports and why they were running so many reports on polygamy I would be curious to know why. I just caught the last 30 or so minutes of it which didn’t really explain what the fascination was.
Other than that…. FLAME ON!Â
   joeÂ
Â
May 12th, 2006 at 2:46 am
Joe, Joe, Joe… {shaking head}.
So here is a quote from your diatribe re “marriage” to children: “The fact that they stay married kind of sort of makes it a little better…”
Reading along, I was willing to follow your logic, as it were, to the end until I read that you think child molestation is made “sort of a little better” if the child and predatory adult stay “married”.
Yes, I’m sure it’s a little better. A quick question: what other sex crimes do you think are “made a little better” by “marriage”, Joe?
May 12th, 2006 at 2:03 pm
What all of that and that is the only thing you comment on Fred? I am losing my touch…. (boggled look)
The thing I was the most unsure about writing. I don’t like it but I also don’t want to close the door on the fact that two people can actually and truly find each other despite age. 12-15 is a bit young. But 16-18… I don’t know. I think it is possible that a real relationship could form.
I haven’t been in a situation nor known anyone in a situation where one was 30+ and the other was a teen. However, People magazine just had an article on Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau and after she served her 8 or so years of prison time she got back together now he is like 23 and she is 44 and consider themselves “soul mates” and the bloom is obviously off that rose, two kids and and she is preparing to hit 50.
I am a little hesistant to say that is outright wrong with no possible exceptions. Maybe because in that case it is a young man being taken in by an older woman, I don’t know. It is inconsistent but it seems a little more wrong if an older male goes after a younger woman.
Ah I don’t know Fred, I shake my head at myself on a fairly regular basis too.
joe
May 12th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Well, it was almost 2am and I didn’t feel like going too much further past that whopper you laid down, Joe. Ultra-permissiveness, which you seem to support, can lead to statements such as yours which seem to suggest you support child molestation; like it or not, it’s not only illegal for an adult to have sex with a 12-year-old, it’s also unethical and immoral, however much “in love” the participants are, and is unmitigated by the length of their “marriage” as you think.
You’re a big South Park fan, I know. Did you watch the episode about NAMBLA? ’nuff said.
To adequately provide comment on all the other stuff you wrote, I’ll need sufficient space, perhaps the same length as yours. As an intellectual exercise, I will do so, post it to my blogger account and have you take a look at it one of these days.
In summary however, I have to say that while I completely agree with your contention that the government should have very, very, very little say in inter-personal relationships, I wholly reject your others. I believe there are instances in which government and society has the responsibility and the supreme duty to intervene and outlaw certain types of relationships because it does not foster the advancement of a civilized society.
Quick note on polygamy: as a grandson of a man who married three wives and furthermore, as a person who has great uncles and aunts several years younger them me, I can tell you it isn’t everything it’s cracked up to be and in fact, causes a ton of problems, which is why I think it should stay illegal.
May 12th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
Phew. Good to see I didn’t lose my touch.
I look forward to reading.
May 12th, 2006 at 11:40 pm
I like reading the debates you and Fred have on this site. The media will jump on any bandwagon. HBO released a new show called Big Love that comes on after the Sopranos. I think it gets decent ratings for HBO.
So now every time you turn on the TV or read a magazine they are doing big stories on this subject.
I agree with you on Mr. Jeffs, I also think there are probably others that belong on the top 10 list. Are his crimes sufficient for that list?
June 17th, 2006 at 2:31 am
I would suggest that you read “God’s Brothel” by Andrea Moore-Emmett to get the full scope on the “fun” of polyamy that you mention. I would also suggest you visit the Web site “Tapestry Against Polygamy” to get an insight on wives and their children who have fled polygamy and continue to have their lives threatened on a daily basis. Their stories are published on this site.
http://www.polygamy.org/
If you don’t mind polygamy, then you must not mind incest, child molestation and abuse, rape of minors, physical abuse of women and children. Polygamist men marry over and over but most often stop caring for their wives and children financially. Their primary concern is to attain the “celestial kingdom” promised by God through polygamy. There is nothing in the doctrines stating they must support these wives and children after they marry them.
Polygamist children often eat out of dumpsters or their mothers are forced to collect food stamps and welfare under fictious names to survive. The children have no birth certificates, they are not protected by federal child protection laws, they receive no healthcare or public schooling. Young males are routinely carted out of the polygamist colonies as young as 13 and dumped in cities to survive on their own. They are referred to as “The Lost Boys”. Why do you think this happens? Guess.
Girls are taken out of school as early as the 3rd grade. Women are considered “Vessels to be worn out by childbirth.” Thinking that a 13 year old girl is a “tad young” as you state is not just young - it’s statutory rape. They are married to men as old as 90 years old and the girls are threatened consistently with death if they leave or the loss of their children to other polygamist families. It isn’t an accident that polygamist colonies are set up in remote areas. These young women are prisoners and by keeping them pregnant, poor, uneducated, and afraid of God’s revenge, they live in hell.
I work to end polygamy - not because polygamists evade taxes but because they abuse children. Polygamists break federal laws by polygamy itself - therefore, their children are not protected by federal laws designed to isolate them from sexual and physical abuse, rape, incest, and any other form of child exploitation these laws are designed to prevent. Polygamist men are criminals to begin with by the act of disobeying federal laws. Who is to think they would obey child protection laws?
In response to your opinion that the polygamists look happy. Remember, the motto of the polygamist men towards their women is to “stay sweet”. It is a metaphor for pretending. They are brainwashed into believing that what they are forced to do is God’s will. In a religious community that shuns contact with the outside world, that is a believable threat. If they look miserable, how would the polygamist look to the outside world? Like the criminal that he is? Keeping hostages as he is?
Also, don’t fool yourself into believing women in these situations cannot push down any real emotion they have and put on an act. Former polygamist wives talk about this in their testimonies constantly. There is a whole lot of physical abuse in polygamist homes and perhaps the smile is better than enduring the fist.
When men discuss polygamy and the fantasy of the endless f***, they need to remember that it is easy to batter women. It’s easy to subjegate them and threaten them under the right circumstances. If God is in the picture, you have a convincing arguement. If a women is born into a polygamist family in someplace like Colorado City - the end of the world - with only other polygamists around her, do you think she has the luxury of considering an alternative life for herself as an independent person? Do you think she has a choice?
Just remember, If you support polygamy as okay, you are also supporting child abuse. They go hand in hand.
June 17th, 2006 at 8:40 am
PipNTisha: If I followed your logic, every person who gets married to only one person will get divorced because that is what happens in the majority of cases. How extensive was your study linking polygamy and child abuse? Did it reach outside of Christian fundamentalists within the USA?
July 31st, 2007 at 3:25 pm
I find polygamy is a vioation of Gods will for our lives. By doing Gods word we are doing his will. This violates everything God is about from the old law of the Bible to the law of Grace in the new testament. He made Adam then formed Eve. It wasnt man is first becasue he was made first.
1 Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every mand have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Titus Ch. 1:6
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife,
Secondly the bible clearly staes the sexually immoral will put a curse on their own children.
Now God doesn’t say what the curse is about, but the consequences of multiple wives and girlfriends from dreams and visions from God causes the children and wives/ girlfriends broken pieces of lives that are not ever really whole but God can clearly heal the broken in heart becasue they are his jewels.
I am not an Dr. by man but I am inspired by God to write that sin outside of one’s marriage leads to shattered lives eventually shattered hearts. Without following Gods word and will ultimately leads to destructiion, sin brings forth death when unrepented.
Never does it state more than 1 wife.
4 better or 4 worse does not give you the excuse to have 8 wives.
What is highly esteemed among men is an abomination to GOD.
Everything in this world comes from God
Belongs to God
Distributed by God.
Welath and honor comes from God.
Not everyone that says to me Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven.
December 8th, 2007 at 1:20 am
I think that no one takes into account all of the marriages that are kept in tact due to Adultery on the part of Husband/wife. Also God allowed men to have more than on wife,if the woman was unmarried And if God didn’t have a problem with it,Why should I?